My dog has just turned 10 and at our last visit, the vet said he has epulides on his gums. It looks quite shocking; there’s so much excess tissue growing from the gums and it's starting to cover his teeth. They’re benign tumours, but they can be very invasive and might require surgery to remove them.
Has anyone else experienced this with their dog? If so, how did it progress?
In my dog's case, I think it's developing really quickly because I check his teeth every now and then and I hadn't seen anything until now!!!
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I have a 12-month-old Lab who is dying from a jaw cancer that is extremely rare for his age and breed. It all started a few months after switching from Eukanuba (which he was on from 3 to 8 months old) to Farmina grain-free (prime lamb). Could there be a link?
I totally agree with you Jupipou, I didn't mean to suggest you thought my vet was being dishonest. I think you might have taken my reply the wrong way, and I’m really sorry about that. We’ve gone a bit off-topic too... Sorry @Liloulette. I hope everything goes well for the pup. Have a good evening.
I’m not saying at all that your vet has bad intentions! My own vet is very kind and professional, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s always recommended rubbish dry food, simply because he was taught that Royal Canin and other junk like that were top-tier! And that’s the case for so many vets! It’s not necessarily their fault; it’s the big brands that have a real hold over them.
Of course, I completely understand not having the time or even the inclination for BARF! And I’m not criticising that at all! What I’m trying to say is that there’s a world of difference between what vets call "quality dry food" and what canine nutrition experts (who’ve studied dog anatomy and behaviour in the wild) call "good food".
The issue with brands like Hill’s, Royal Canin, ProPlan, etc., is that they’re massive corporations trying to maximise their profit margins at all costs. In fact, Royal Canin belongs to the same group as Pedigree (Mars); ProPlan is part of the same group as Bakers (Nestlé); and Hill’s is owned by Colgate.
For the same price as that dry food (which, between us, is made with subpar ingredients and loads of additives), you can find grain-free options with a much higher meat content, made from fresh meat with little to no additives! Carnilove, for example, is a much better product compared to the big-brand kibble.
@Jupipou, I know my vet well and she feeds her dogs, as do her colleagues at the practice, the same dry food that she sells me... I know a more meat-based, home-cooked diet would be ideal, but personally, I just don't have the time for it (which is a real shame). Between supermarket food full of rubbish that companies advertise on TV and the "ideal" diet like BARF, high-quality dry food is a good compromise. Anyway, nothing is ever truly perfect in life. Even our own human diets are far from perfect when you take a proper look at what's being sold to us!
I hope Liloulette33 gets the answers she needs for her dog from some good professionals. Best of luck and have a lovely rest of your weekend.
Ah, right, brilliant if you're sticking with that grain-free dry food then!
Just so you know, if he does ever have any tummy troubles, it might be worth trying potato-free brands. But if he's doing fine for now, that’s spot on. :)
I’m not sure you can really draw a parallel between humans and dogs in this regard; since dogs are carnivores, it would be a bit far-fetched to take away the proteins that are vital to them. I do see your logic and why you're wondering, though. But really, that’s more a matter for medical science than a community of pet lovers, lol.
No problem regarding BARF, I just tend to bring it up almost every time as it would be a shame for people who could actually manage it to miss out.
It’s a bit of a tricky situation. On one hand, you have an older dog who might not handle the anaesthetic very well (although my 12-year-old girl is going under the knife soon and according to the vet, her condition doesn't justify any extra worry...), but at the same time, if the tumours keep growing, it’s going to become a real problem... I'm not sure anyone here can really tell you what to do; it’s best to rely on the advice from both vets, your own knowledge of your dog, and your gut instinct.
Best of luck, either way.
@Toofsy74, "vet-recommended" dry food and high-quality food don’t always go hand in hand. Those brands are often packed with grains and the proteins they use aren't the best quality. It’s better to provide grain-free dry food with fresh meat and a good protein level (like Carnilove, Acana, or Orijen, for example).
Price isn't always a guide to quality—the dry food I mentioned in my last post cost me about £50 for a 26lb bag and had been recommended by the vet, so there you go...
Hi there, just to answer your question, the epulis was on her bottom left canine. It was the biopsy that revealed it was an acanthomatous epulis, which likely isn't the case with yours as it's a very aggressive form. Having her operated on was a really difficult time because she had to have so many general anaesthetics: for the biopsy, the X-rays, post-op, and then the stitches came out... More than six anaesthetics in two months, with all the trips back and forth to the vet and seeing a specialist. For six weeks, she was on a homemade diet of meat mash, rice cooked for three hours, veg... It took a huge amount of care and attention, not to mention the cost (as not everyone can afford it without pet insurance). But we’ve never regretted it because, given how aggressive this form of epulis was, the vets we consulted all said the same thing: it’s either surgery or you lose her. Definitely get a few different opinions. And just for info, all my dogs have always been fed high-quality dry food bought from the vet, including this one, who was a Labrador-Setter cross.
Don't worry, I have no intention of changing his dry food. He’s doing well and is in good spirits despite everything. He’s digesting his food fine and his poo is nice and firm.
I’m a nurse and I’ve worked in palliative care... back then, there were two different schools of thought. Some said to limit protein in cancer cases because the tumour feeds on protein (that was my head of department's view), while others said it made no difference and that you should provide protein to help boost a cancer patient.
BARF is just too complicated with my irregular shift patterns, and anyway, I can see that my Golden Retriever is already having some trouble chewing... his current dry food isn't too big, which is a good thing.
Getting a second opinion from another vet at a different practice is something I already do as a rule. (As it happens, he was operated on by a different vet for the tumour on his tail because my usual vet wanted to wait too long to remove it.)
I’m just gathering information for the day it starts bleeding, as he’ll likely catch the tissue of the tumour when he’s eating.
Many thanks for your replies.
