My dog barks when we're at the table, help!

dark, is your dog normally aggressive? 😧

I’ve got quite a few sources too, you know... ethologists, veterinary behaviourists, behaviourists, dog trainers... Initially, I was convinced that a human-dog hierarchy existed and was necessary. I’ve been trying to find evidence of one for nearly three years now, and I just can't. Every time you get into the details, it just doesn’t hold up... It would be so much simpler if it were the other way around!

I’m going to go off-topic here, and I’m sorry about that, but I wanted to share a point of view regarding the discussion on "dominance". As some of you might know, I’ve got a 3-month-old Jack Russell puppy. He’s my first dog, so I’m learning something new every day. I’m doing as much research as possible, but I’ve noticed two completely different schools of thought, and it’s left me feeling a bit lost! On one hand, there’s 100% positive reinforcement training, and on the other, the idea of "dominating" the dog so he understands his place in the family.

I’m inclined to use positive training, but I still feel like there are some flaws. To give you an example: last night, for reasons unknown, Jack started growling at me, then barking, and then he latched onto my trousers until they ripped, before biting my calf and drawing blood. I tried freezing, ignoring him, and redirecting him to a toy, but nothing worked and he ended up puncturing my calf. In the end, I raised my voice and put him in the garage until he calmed down.

So, my question for the 100% positive training crowd is: what do you do in a situation like that? Am I supposed to just let him bite my leg until I bleed and then reward him when he stops? I don't think so! And if it had happened to my 3-year-old niece, should I have just let that happen too? I’m doing my best to use positive methods, but I didn’t get a dog just to be bitten under the pretext that he wants attention, or wants to play, or whatever else! I wouldn’t accept aggressive behaviour from a human, so why should I be forced to accept it from a dog?

I’ve almost certainly missed some signs—maybe he was trying to tell me something, I don’t know—but I don’t think that justifies getting a hole in your leg without saying a word!

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

luridia, don’t worry, we know you’re only trying to help and you might well be right, but it’s just not how we see things 😌

I'll give the video a proper watch, thanks ;) I'm just sharing what I've been taught while trying to help, and what I've learned comes from reading loads of different books and chatting with several vets. So, when you have multiple sources, you can generally assume you've got the basics down, but one thing's for sure—nothing is ever set in stone in science, and personally, I'm always keen to learn :) I'll watch your video with great interest, but it's off to bed for me now ^^ goodnight everyone.

If you're a vet student, you'll know full well that you have to keep your knowledge of ethology up to date... Here’s the sort of lecture vets are being given these days: https://merial-fr.adobeconnect.com/_a880721604/p4v5le03vqf/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal

My connection isn't great, so I can't re-watch the video. From memory, it mentions the concept of the pack and touches on hierarchy, and I believe it’s a lecture for future vets.

In ethology, you'll find that there is no such thing as hierarchy between two different species. So, unless you’re viewing a dog as a human or imagining that a human is a dog, interspecies hierarchy simply doesn't exist. It’s a concept that isn't found anywhere; I’ve looked, and I only found one single reference, but it was so narrow that the human-dog relationship didn't fit, and that work was quite old and has never been picked up since... in favour of other research. There are several possible models for the human-dog relationship; for now, nothing is certain, but scientists have observed interspecies leadership, for instance.

There is a world of difference between anthropomorphising and actually looking at how a dog behaves... Turning the dog into a caricature of a human doesn't work, and turning them into a caricature of some wolf fantasy doesn't work either. A dog is just a dog, and they are already wonderful just as they are.

@Gwash95. You have to train as a vet to become a veterinary behaviourist. It takes six years of study, then a year's internship, followed by four years of specialisation. I want to become a behaviourist myself; I’m really interested in it. I’ve done work placements with behaviourists, and even a regular vet gets basic training in animal behaviour. A general vet should still be able to give people advice. Anyway, thanks for the aggressive and condescending tone. As for what you think of my knowledge, well, never mind – it has already helped plenty of people.

@Clara360: It’s lovely to hear what you have to say :) I replied to a post about a dog barking while the owner is eating; that’s a specific issue. Not all dogs react the same way. The lady you know will have found a way (and surely the right one for her) to enforce her boundaries. Everyone has their own limits. Some people are fine with the dog on the bed, even under the duvet, others want them under the bed, and others keep them in the kitchen. Dog training is a very personal thing and is tied to the owner's own level of acceptance. The lady who started the thread has a problem because her dog is behaving beyond what she’s prepared to tolerate, and it’s putting her in a difficult spot now that she’s going away. I’m just trying to help with my limited knowledge. You can't generalise. Every case is different. Certain basic principles can be used, but not all of them have to be, and they aren't always necessary :) That’s just my way of looking at things. What I want above all else is for the dog and its owner to live in harmony without one dominating the other. The lady you mentioned clearly knew exactly how to manage her dogs according to her own boundaries, and fair play to her. I can do the same with mine. At the end of the day, everyone has a different point of view ;)