We’ve had our male Eurasier puppy for 12 days now, so he’s 10 weeks old, and we’ve been really struggling with him every evening for the last few days.
I should mention that at the start, the breeder told us to keep him in a 3ft crate at night and for 2 hours after his meals. But since he was barking his head off every night, and I was worried about whether he could actually hold it in all night, I eventually started taking him out every 3 hours or so. I figured he just couldn't hold his bladder. But as soon as I put him back in the crate, it was the same thing again—barking for at least 10 minutes. We finally reached breaking point with the crate when he started barking every 2 hours. We couldn't just ignore him like the breeder suggested, especially since he was covered in pee by the morning. I called a dog trainer who told me to ditch the crate (she’s not a fan, I should add) as it seemed to be stressing him out. She suggested starting from scratch: letting him sleep in the living room (he prefers the floor tiles to his bed) and sleeping in the room with him for a week to reassure him. We’ve done that and he’s lovely; he doesn't even wake up during the night and manages to hold it from 11pm until 6am.
But here’s the problem: for several evenings now, after his dinner and a quick toilet walk, Cosmo gets really hyper once we’re back inside. He jumps on us, on the sofa, and bites us quite hard. Nothing works: not saying ‘no’ (which I don't think he understands anyway), not trying to redirect him with a toy, nor ignoring him (which is hard because he goes for your feet and calves). Even leaving the room doesn't work, as he just starts again the moment we come back. We’ve tried putting him in the downstairs loo (since we’re not using the crate anymore), but he just goes right back to it as soon as he’s out. We’re at our wits' end, and my husband and daughter are actually starting to get scared of him because he’s so persistent with the biting. We read that we should tire him out, but since these ‘episodes’ happen right after his meal, we’re worried about the risk of bloat. Other than that, we take him out regularly during the day for toilet breaks, plus two longer walks in the morning and late afternoon around the block (about 20 minutes each time, at his own pace).
So, that’s the situation. We really need your advice because we’re struggling to cope. This is our first dog so we’re not used to this, and with the lockdown, there are no puppy classes or home visits from trainers available...
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This is partly what I’m trying to explain when I say it’s an emotional release behaviour and not necessarily about burning off energy (as if the dog hasn't had enough exercise).
The dog is venting frustration, discomfort, or stress etc., which aren’t necessarily abnormal – they’re just part of life for a puppy in a big, busy world – it’s just the only way they have at that age to 'decompress'.
It’s no wonder then that puppies often behave like this after a walk; a walk is a lot to take in and can be quite stressful – it’s just so much for a little puppy to process! :)
It’s possible @Kainate that it’s "only" that, but at such a young age, having only just come home from the breeder, spending more time nipping hard than running around like a mad thing, refusing to be redirected (to toys, etc.) and then starting to bite again after being put in a time-out for a bit... It seems to go on for a while, longer than what I’d usually expect from puppy zoomies. Maybe it doesn't actually last that long for the OP’s puppy, or maybe they aren't being "managed" well so it drags on, or perhaps these mad moments just last longer than I thought...
I don’t know, but something makes me think it’s mainly down to stress... I’ve just come across this article which partly explains what you’re talking about, and it also says this:
"It can also be a way for the animal to release stress built up during the day, or a way of showing that they aren't getting enough physical activity."
If he’s trying to de-stress, then putting him in a time-out might not be the answer? That’s what I’m wondering, and also why he’s feeling stressed in the first place, if that is indeed the case...
"Leaving toys out, offering alternatives (the garden...), to me, that still counts as guidance."
Yeah, in that sense, we’re on the same page!
"He mostly takes it out on his owners, so it's very targeted and persistent; on top of that, he bites hard enough to scare them (whereas when a puppy has its mad moments, you usually just want to laugh?)"
Yes, for most dogs, the "mad half-hour" is completely harmless—the famous "zoomies" (FRAPs = frenetic random activity periods): https://youtu.be/ISJ-x39-0Qs
But not for all of them... I imagine it depends quite a bit on the dog's predominant "motor patterns"... for instance, you often get little Borders that stalk their owners and lunge at their calves to nip them frantically before tearing off (or not) into a zoomie!
Léon also had quite aggressive "mad moments"—specifically, he’d bark very nervously and try to nip, but only with the very tips of his teeth. It didn’t particularly scare me, but I can see how it could be unsettling for first-time owners. He didn’t just run around like a mad thing; he was simply obsessed with the idea of tracking me.
Actually, cats get these mad moments too. I remember a kitten I rescued who, come evening, would start zooming but would occasionally swerve off course to charge at our feet, and he bit quite hard—it really hurt!
What makes me think of "the zoomies" in the OP’s post is the fact that it always happens at the same time of day: in the evening. That’s often the case with puppies. I’m not sure why, but I suspect it’s a vestigial behaviour linked to their evolution as predators.
As they get older, the phenomenon can persist but seems less tied to a schedule (and more importantly, the dog usually learns how to blow off steam appropriately, without taking it out on their owners...). With mine, it’s triggered by wide open spaces, wet grass, sand...
I spoke to a dog trainer who told me to ditch the crate (she’s not a fan of them, I should add), as it seemed to be a source of STRESS for him. She suggested starting from scratch: letting him sleep in the living room at night (he prefers the tiles to his bed) and sleeping downstairs with him for a week to settle him. We’ve done that and he’s being an absolute angel; he doesn’t even wake up in the night and manages to hold his bladder from 11pm until 6am.
The problem is, for several days now, once EVENING comes—after his dinner and a quick walk to do his business—Cosmo gets really worked up as soon as we’re back in the house. He jumps all over us, jumps on the sofa, and bites us quite nastily. Nothing seems to work: not saying "no" (which I don’t think he understands anyway), not trying to redirect him with a toy, and not even ignoring him (which is hard because he tries to bite your feet and calves). Even leaving the room doesn't help, because as soon as we come back, he starts again. We’ve tried putting him in the downstairs loo (since we’ve stopped using the crate), but he just goes right back at it as soon as he’s out.
We don’t know what to do anymore and my husband and daughter are starting to get scared of him because he’s so relentless with the biting. We read that we need to burn off his energy, but as these "episodes" happen right after his meal, we’re worried about the risk of bloat. Other than that, he goes out regularly during the day for toilet breaks, plus two longer walks in the morning and late afternoon around the local area (about 20 minutes each time, at his own pace). That’s the situation.
Looking back at that first message, are these really just the typical puppy "zoomies" he’s having? Isn’t he a bit young for that? Not quite big enough or settled in enough to really let go yet?
I’m not sure. Maybe it’s "just" stress that he’s venting? For some reason I can't quite put my finger on...
During those "mad five minutes," puppies usually just run around like crazy in every direction, don't they? Which he isn’t doing. A puppy will usually jump from one activity to another, from one idea to the next in the blink of an eye, without necessarily targeting their owners. What they do often makes no sense at all, right?
But he is specifically going for his owners; it’s very directed and quite forceful too. He’s biting so hard that he’s scaring them (whereas when a puppy has the zoomies, you usually just want to laugh, don’t you?)
Well, he rarely had those famous "zoomies". When it did happen, it was very mild and didn't last long; there were plenty of ways to redirect him easily anyway. It seemed clear to us that it was partly linked to his walks – they were either too long or too short, so he was just letting off steam.
Guiding and directing him bit by bit mainly meant not ignoring the puppy to the point of isolating him, locking him in a room and waiting for it to blow over.
Leaving toys out and offering alternatives (like the garden...) is, for me, all part of supporting them. It’s not about leaving a young puppy to his own devices, expecting him to calm down on his own like a grown-up, which he isn't yet.
Léon was a bit older though when it all started (closer to 4 months). I wouldn't say it's "harsh" though; it depends on how you handle it. It shouldn't necessarily be seen as a "punishment," especially at first. You can easily give the pup something to keep them busy in the area where you've put them, in which case it's much more about redirection. With Basile (though his "mad moments" were much milder and there was no aggression), we could also just open the back door so he could zoom around the garden and burn off that excess energy on his own. But just not on us, you know? In those moments, I feel the dog is more letting off steam than actually playing (there’s no real communication), and I think it's really important that they learn to tell the difference. It’s fine to burn off energy by doing zoomies, shredding cardboard, etc., but not by treating their humans like "prey" :)
I’m a bit sceptical about "embracing" these crazy moments. There are so many dogs lacking self-control these days that I’d be worried about encouraging that by joining in—even if, in this case, an Eurasier isn't exactly the highest-risk breed.
Especially when I see how an adult dog reacts to it (it’s always interesting to see how dogs interact)... clearly, when Basile has his "mad five minutes" (he still gets them at 18 months old, though luckily it's quite sweet with him), Léon (my older one) doesn't "embrace" it at all. He tries to corner him to get him to calm down, and that’s already led to a few scraps. If an adult dog (mine at least, who is a bit particular, with a strong herding instinct that makes him very reactive to other dogs’ excitement) doesn't "tolerate" it or join in, should we?
What's interesting is that Léon really reacts to the very first signs of this "emotional release." As soon as he sees Basile’s expression change, his tail go up, or his hackles rise, he reacts immediately by trying to block him in a corner, before Basile has even started running.
It’s worth noting that currently, Basile’s remaining "mad moments" always happen right after coming home from a walk... and just before lockdown, those "walks" were often 4-hour hikes... so for me, it’s got absolutely nothing to do with a lack of exercise.
I think we also need to accept (or even 'embrace') their 'mad moments', at least to some extent, and try to channel them a little, if we can, and bit by bit...
If I’ve followed correctly, there’s an issue with a lot of nipping and a puppy that gets very hyper in the evening—so two problems to manage, sometimes at the same time but not always? I mainly wanted to say regarding the nipping (and just that), if the owners leave the room (ouch! / I'm off / have a think about it...), they don't need to be gone for half an hour, just a brief moment. For the restlessness, I'd suggest working on "settle" training or bed training, even though it won't be a quick fix. I'd also do what’s been suggested: change the feeding times, offer some play before or after, etc... but I wouldn't necessarily isolate the puppy (especially one under three months old) for that long. I understand that worked best for yours, but it wouldn't be my first choice for handling it (which isn't to say it's not an option, but I have to admit I find it a bit harsh).
@hben, I think teaching the "bed" command is a bit tricky during these kinds of "phases".
If this puppy is in the same state that Leon used to get into during his evening "witching hour", he’ll be completely unreachable—staring into space, almost like he’s possessed.
But yes, either way, it’s a good bit of training to start introducing slowly now :) Even if the command probably won’t be truly effective for "managing" him when he’s over-excited for another few months yet.
As for the length of the isolation or timeout... I can only speak from my own experience, but in our case, they had to be quite long (easily 20 minutes), otherwise the dog didn’t calm down enough and would just kick off again straight away. You have to realise that he was in such a state of over-excitement that he was beyond reasoning with. So, he wasn't really in a fit state to immediately make the connection between his behaviour and being socially isolated. Before it becomes a "punishment" that the dog understands as such ("if I get too hyper, I’ll end up on my own"), leaving the room or isolating the dog is primarily a management tool to stop the dog from reinforcing his own behaviour.
It eventually sinks in, but it takes time. More importantly, over time, he’ll eventually settle into your rhythm and prefer curling up somewhere warm at your feet in the evening rather than going mental. He'll learn to use other times of the day to let off steam and play (it's obviously still essential to play with the puppy and teach him self-control during play, but I think there’s a time for everything, and these total meltdowns aren't the best time for it).
