Puppy sold with heart murmur despite clear health certificate

M
Medx Icon representing the flag French
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Hi everyone,

Just over three weeks ago, we bought an 8-week-old KC registered Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppy from a private seller.

Yesterday, we took him to the vet for his booster, and during the check-up, the vet informed us that our puppy has a serious problem: a severe heart murmur (detected via stethoscope). According to the vet, it’s impossible for a murmur like this to have developed in just three weeks, so it definitely should have been mentioned on the health certificate provided by the seller. However, the certificate states he is in excellent health and everything is fine. The vet advised us to take the matter up with the seller and even look into legal action if needed, as they had no right to sell a puppy with a pre-existing health condition like this. We now have to get a heart scan (which will cost at least 30) to see if he’ll need lifelong medication or even surgery—meaning a significant financial cost for us.

We called the seller, but they are refusing to refund us, insisting that the dog was sold in good health as per the certificate.

What should we do? Has anyone been through something similar?

Thanks for your help.

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12 answers
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    • C
    Cacari71 Icon representing the flag French
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    Can we take action against their vet for making a mistake then?

    A heart murmur isn't necessarily a sign of a serious condition. In a young puppy (under 6 months old), a murmur can be 'physiological' and benign, and might just clear up on its own. But it can also be pathological when it's caused by a malformation or a dysfunction... To find out how serious the problem is, you should see a cardiologist who will be able to tell you if the murmur will go away or not... Most vets charge between £110 and £260 on average.

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    C
    Cacari71 Icon representing the flag French
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    Usually, a heart murmur is there from the start... It doesn't just appear out of thin air like magic... I’m a professional breeder and I would NEVER sell a puppy with a juvenile murmur! However, your mistake was going to a private seller... Did you at least get a receipt?? With some legal guarantees??? Did you do any research beforehand on the breed and its health issues??

    Your lack of care in buying from a private individual rather than a professional has taught you a tough lesson!

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    ?
    Anonymous user Icon representing the flag French
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    Dogs are no longer considered merely as "goods," "chattels," or objects, but as sentient beings under the law. Consequently, a refund is not dependent on returning the animal.

    What’s the connection? Has the legal framework for selling animals really changed that much since 2015? This claim focuses on the buyer’s interests, not the animal’s—and in this context, the dog is still legally considered "goods."

    Be careful with those kinds of shortcuts, especially on this subject. It could seriously backfire on the buyer by completely removing the transaction from the protection of general consumer law in favour of specific agricultural regulations which, for the moment, aren't particularly helpful to them.

    Furthermore, any breeder, whether professional or a hobbyist, must have a registered business number (SIREN) to sell an animal. However, an individual selling only one litter a year must apply for an exemption from the authorities if they don't have a registration number. If the seller has neither a business number nor an exemption, they face a fine of around £6,300. All profits from sales (from the very first animal sold) are subject to income tax and must be declared.

    Thanks for the lecture. 9 out of 10. A couple of notes: the exemption is actually automatic. And while the regulation came into effect on 1st January 2016, it was actually dated October 2015.

    To take it a step further: the specific tax bracket these profits should be declared under is debatable, even if there’s a directive from the "governing body" of the profession.

    I think it’s in the seller’s best interest to reach an out-of-court settlement and take responsibility. Otherwise, I don't see why the buyer should do them any favours, ESPECIALLY as they’re the ones who have to live with a sick dog and pick up the vet bills.

    We seem to agree on the benefits of an amicable settlement, even if your previous message made it sound like you were egging @Medx on towards a full legal battle.

    And it's in everyone's interest—depending on the value of the puppy, spending years fighting and paying legal fees that you’ll only get partially reimbursed for, all over a sum of about £1,700... well, sorry, but speaking from experience, it’s just not worth it.

    That said, I never mentioned anything about the buyer doing the seller a "favour"...

    😒

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    ?
    Anonymous user Icon representing the flag French
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    Dogs are no longer seen as just commodities or property, but as sentient beings. Under current animal welfare laws, this means that getting a refund shouldn't be tied to having to return the animal. Furthermore, any breeder—whether they’re a professional or just a hobbyist—must follow strict licensing rules to sell an animal. Selling pets without the proper registration or following the legal requirements can lead to a fine of around £6,500. Any profit made from these sales (from the very first animal sold) is subject to income tax and must be declared to HMRC. I think the seller would be wise to reach an amicable agreement and take responsibility here. If they don’t, I don't see why the buyer should do them any favours, ESPECIALLY as the buyer is the one who has to live with a sick dog and cover all the vet bills.
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    Anonymous user Icon representing the flag French
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    Well, where to start... First, you’d need to establish that the heart murmur is serious enough to mean the puppy isn't "fit for purpose", but more importantly, you’d have to prove the condition existed before the sale. You can't really tell much from a vet simply listening with a stethoscope. So, I wouldn't go in jumping the gun and assuming you’ll definitely win, even if the courts do protect the consumer—it’s a bit of a leap at this stage. Furthermore, when it comes to "hidden defects" (and even then, it’s debatable whether this case would qualify, as legal precedents vary), a full refund usually means returning the "faulty goods". So, you either ask for a price reduction to cover the loss, or you get a full refund and return the puppy. You could also try asking for a "replacement", handing back the puppy in exchange for another. Anyway, as with any legal dispute, you should try to settle the conflict during the amicable phase first. As for the theory of the vet being liable—on paper, yes—but again, good luck proving a misdiagnosis, and especially the intentional falsification of records intended for a third party regarding a juvenile murmur. And let’s stop assuming all breeders are acting in bad faith, for their sake.
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    Anonymous user Icon representing the flag French
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    Hi there, You have legal recourse as this is a hidden defect that entitles you to a refund for your pet. 1- Ask your vet to provide a certificate. 2- Send a copy to the breeder who sold you the puppy, requesting a refund via recorded delivery (make sure you keep a copy for yourself). 3- Check if you have any insurance that covers legal fees. 4- If you don't get a response, contact a specialist solicitor (you will have a strong case). If you involve a solicitor, you can claim not only a refund for the puppy but also the reimbursement of all expenses, including any surgery fees. Keep in mind that even if the puppy was sold by a private seller and the pups are KC registered, the sale must be declared to HMRC. Consequently, these issues are likely to cost them much more than a simple refund. However, only a solicitor will be able to give you specific legal advice.
    Translated from French
    Docline
    Docline Icon representing the flag French
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    My vet actually offered to give a ring to the colleague who’d signed off on a health certificate for a cat with health issues. You should definitely mention it to your vet – even if it's just to get some more info or to double-check the dates and so on.
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    ?
    Anonymous user Icon representing the flag French
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    A vet is a doctor? Not even in your dreams!
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    M
    Medx Icon representing the flag French
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    I found this online (I know you can find all sorts of rubbish on the internet, but it matches what our vet told us)

    Translated from French
    M
    Medx Icon representing the flag French
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    I found this online (I know you can find all sorts of stuff on the internet, but it lines up with what our vet told us)

    Translated from French

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