I'm brand new here and I can't seem to find any advice for my specific question.
I’ve always had dogs and horses (my original profession) and I’ve never had any training issues until now lol 🤷.
I’ve had a little 2.5-month-old Border Collie x Bernese Mountain Dog cross for two weeks now. She listens to me perfectly, is starting to respond well to clicker training, and is beginning to let me know when she needs to go out for her business...
BUT she’s so social and happy (her name is Joy, which probably doesn’t help!) that she goes absolutely mental with all children. She has no self-control; she nips (with those puppy teeth it feels like getting a piercing), jumps, yaps, growls, and really fights back when she's restrained... She sees loads of kids four times a day (I live right opposite the school bus stop), and my 7-year-old daughter is actually very gentle with her—no over-exciting games, no carrying her around, and she's not allowed on the sofa. She even takes an active part in the training (walks, toilet training, clicker sessions, etc.). To Joy, children aren’t figures to respect but playmates at the same 'hierarchical' level as her.
As I only use positive reinforcement training, what advice could you give me so that Joy learns to be as gentle with children as she is with adults?
Translated from French
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Hi Lili-Joy,
It seems like a bit of a tall order to stop children, especially when school’s just let out, from getting excited, running around, and sometimes screaming. They are basically huge triggers that get your dog all wound up.
As for using the word "no", it’s always baffled me how people see it as such a negative thing when communicating with their dog. I’ve even seen people on here advising against ever using "no", while in the same breath suggesting "stop" or "stay". I’m still trying to figure out the difference...
"No" is just a word. To a dog, it’s just a sound. That sound is then shaped by your tone of voice, which is what the dog is actually sensitive to. They also pick up on your body language and how you’re behaving the moment you make that sound. All of this helps them decode your intention. If your intention is to stop a behaviour, then it really doesn't matter which word you use. What matters is your tone and your general attitude. "No", "stop", "stay"—it really makes no difference. The emotional weight we give to words doesn’t mean a thing to a dog.
Anyway, back to the children.
For a dog to be fully socialised, they need to be around all sorts of different people. To them, every variation of human (men, women, children, the elderly, different ethnicities) can seem like a different species and requires its own socialisation process.
What I'm saying is that, to your dog, your daughter isn't necessarily representative of all children. Other kids, who are much less familiar, can trigger reactions that are more instinctive than social.
Perhaps you could organise a little get-together with a few children and, as a bit of a game, encourage them to help with your dog’s socialisation. For instance, they could pay her no attention at all while she’s over-excited and only start interacting with her once she settles down. Obviously, the kids need to stay calm themselves. You’ll need to be right there, ready to step in just in case. You should never leave children alone with a dog, especially if they aren't familiar with one another.
If the kids want to play but your dog won't settle, you should separate her or put her in another room until she calms down. This kind of exercise is really valuable for both the dog and the children, as they both have to learn to regulate themselves before they can interact. That way, the kids learn more about the dog and the dog learns more about children. It’s also vital that they become familiar faces so your dog can gradually move from instinctive reactions to social ones. In any case, she needs to learn that being too hyper means she loses out on interaction, whereas staying calm earns her attention and play.
But when my daughter gives her a firm "NO", she doesn't listen at all lol. When she tries to nip me and I silently ignore her without looking and turn my back, it works brilliantly (it acts as a sort of punishment), but it's not working with the kids. I wonder if it's actually the fact that she gets a "no" and eye contact from the child that makes her think she's getting attention, so she just starts again.
With the ducks, chickens, cats, and goats, Joy is generally quite gentle on the whole.
I’m not questioning your advice at all, but Joy doesn't "sit" on command yet, and I’d prefer to avoid using negatives if possible. I’ve read a few threads on the forum also recommending the "ignoring" method and especially avoiding any sign of interest (even the "no" and the eye contact should apparently be avoided).
The trouble is, asking children to stay stoic isn't exactly easy! People will probably think I’m being a bit demanding given I’ve already had some lovely advice, but I’m really looking for another tip that fits in with positive reinforcement training. 😳
Favilla: is that a Tervuren in your avatar? I don't know the breed at all, it looks just like a long-haired Malinois! 😉
Dogs do tend to be quite boisterous for a fair while, generally speaking...
I had this issue with my Tervueren until he was about 8 months old. I’d stop everything as soon as he started acting up (and I’d ask other people to stop what they were doing and ignore him too) and tell him ‘NO’. Then, after making him sit for 30 seconds, I’d let him go back to playing while saying ‘gentle’, and I’d just keep repeating that every single time.
Unfortunately, some dogs are just naturally rougher than others... I didn't have that problem at all with the ones I've had before...
Nowadays, my Terv is still a bit boisterous with adults he knows, but he’s careful with small dogs, children and even babies and rabbits... he’s got much better self-control now, even though he’s still very young.
