Evening everyone, I'm posting this while still in a bit of shock.
I've just got back from a walk with my dog, a one-year-old Akita Inu. I was walking him around my housing estate, which has plenty of green space. My dog was, of course, on his lead. Then I saw another dog (a Spitz, weighing about 22 lbs I'd say) charging at us aggressively, and obviously it wasn't on a lead. In the blink of an eye, mine fought back and, given the weight difference, I was absolutely terrified when I heard the Spitz yelping in my dog's mouth. The Spitz's owner arrived after the dust had settled—it was a child, who was just as frightened (at least as much as I was) by what had just happened. The Spitz didn't seem to have any serious injuries, but I was really shaken. The child's father then turned up and explained that most of the dogs in the estate are let off their leads.
The question I'm asking myself is, who is at fault:
-Walking a dog off-lead?
-Not muzzling a dog (even if it's not a restricted breed)?
If, god forbid, the Spitz had been hurt, would it be my fault? I suspect so, but what am I risking? And what would happen to my dog?!
Thanks in advance.
Translated from French
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Hi there, I think most things have already been said.
One thing you can do, though, is go to your management company with the dog owner's name and tell them exactly what happened. Dogs must be kept on a lead—it’s the law—and it should also be stated in your building’s rules (if you live in a block of flats; it’s definitely in our agreement).
Otherwise, if you live in a house, you should report it to the local council or the police. Any dog that is aggressive towards other dogs must be kept on a lead. To be honest, whether they’re aggressive or not, they have to be under control in public places—that’s the law.
I think this sort of thing happens so quickly that you don't even have time to think; you just pull your dog away and hope the other one doesn't come back for more. At the end of the day, the other dog should have been on a lead, or at least manageable by a responsible owner.
Right, to answer your points (in order, and sorry for the formatting, I’m on my mobile):
I was only warned after this sad incident that people in the estate were irresponsible. As proof, I’m keeping the dog strictly on a lead from now on (I forgot to mention that I’ve actually only just moved in). I might be an idiot, but I’m not about to tempt fate, as you put it. (By the way, I’m right here, so you can address me directly rather than referring to me as "this person".)
As for your earlier questions, that is indeed what I think, and I’m actually wondering whether or not I’m at risk from a legal standpoint. It just seems logical that I’d be at fault, even if the dog is on a lead. That’s exactly why I’m asking; despite being a bit "thick", I am trying to educate myself a bit.
There are no easy answers, no magic solutions. You just grab the lead and back off, trying to pull them apart... and who knows how you’ll react when the pressure's on?
My dogs aren't muzzled. Neither of them. They’re both sociable. If another dog goes for them, I’d pull them back and try to get out of there, exactly the same way. I’d just hope they wouldn't fight back, because that would only put them in more danger. From my experience with them, they don't retaliate. But then again, you never know how they're going to react. I’ve been through a nasty attack myself; there was a moment I thought my dog was a goner, and my instinct was just to think, "if we hit the dog, it'll make it worse". We were lucky enough to have some water nearby to throw over the attacking dog’s head... so we gave it a go and got lucky.
If there are two people there, the advice is for both to walk away while calling their dogs. If one dog is off-lead, it’s manageable. If both dogs are on leads, there’s a risk of them getting tangled up, and then you’re in real trouble... I can’t give you a magic fix; there isn’t one. But expecting your dog to defend himself until he "settles" the matter personally? That’s asking for trouble! It’ll only make things worse and the potential injuries could be horrific. I’m so glad Fenris didn't fight back when he was attacked, because it would’ve just been even worse... and it was bad enough as it was. As soon as the other dog let go, Fenris just bolted. He could have kept it going and dragged the fight out. That’s the thing about "defending yourself" too.
Ryxen, if you ever have to defend yourself against an attack... you'll only be granted the right to self-defence if you stop once you've finished defending yourself. It has to be proportionate.
For your information:
Strict Liability (Legal Principle)
The owner of an animal, or the person in charge of it at the time, is responsible for any damage the animal causes, whether the animal was under their control, or if it had been lost or escaped.
I’m asking my question again to everyone who insisted there was no risk for this person as long as their dog was on a lead: which law exactly states that? If their dog kills another dog, bites someone, or attacks—even if it was provoked—the owner is liable for the damage... whether the dog is on a lead or not. And as for the dog... I don’t even want to imagine the potential consequences. Besides, if we’re looking at the details, if you’re aware of the danger, it isn’t up to "everyone else to be careful"—it is 100% up to the owner to put the necessary safety measures in place to prevent an accident.
They’ve been warned that there are off-lead dogs around, they’re likely to run into that dog again, and they’ll probably run into others... why tempt fate instead of being as proactive as possible? Does it really take a tragedy before we’re allowed to bring up the subject of muzzles?
So I’ll ask you my question again @célinéo... let’s say I’m walking my dog on a lead with a muzzle and a "stray" dog attacks my dog... what am I supposed to do, since my dog won't be able to defend himself and neither will I, unless I want to get bitten too!! In practical terms, what happens to my dog? Do I just "watch him get bitten and maybe killed by this stray dog"??
Do I try to separate them by "hitting the other dog" at the risk of it turning on me? What should I be doing????
If you have the solution then fine, let me have it, you never know
Right, let’s look at the problem the other way round. Your dog is on a lead, unmuzzled. A dog comes up and attacks. No owner in sight, it's a stray... What happens? Do you just let them fight it out until one of them is dead and think "good job my dog is tough"? Oh well, mine are a bit too much like big softies to try playing that game. Tough luck, I guess I should have picked tougher, more aggressive ones? Counting on your dog to defend himself is a dodgy business, because it means you're expecting him to cause damage and take hits without you doing anything... In itself, you can let a dog defend himself through communication (and I've suggested muzzles that allow for that), but we shouldn't have to imagine it going any further than that! And honestly, stepping in against an attacking dog is risky enough, but stepping into a fight where both are biting is even worse...
It’s not always a matter of being responsible; I agree with using a muzzle. In fact, my parents' dogs wear them, yet when you see them with my dog, he’s got way more of a temperament. But he knows how to communicate and doesn’t bite. So, even if he’s a bit of a grump, he doesn’t wear one because even after being growled and lunged at three times by other dogs, he’s never retaliated. That said, I always go out with a long lead (either 3m or a retractable one) to give him a bit of room to communicate. Then again, dogs that approach growling isn't normal either; it doesn't mean they're definitely going to bite, but it sends a very negative message because a meeting should be calm. But you can never be too sure, and if a dog's first response to a bark or a growl is to bite, it’s better to have a muzzle on you.
In the case of my parents’ dogs, they’ve come across a really strange dog that we live with but can't let them interact with. On several occasions, this dog has attacked the two big ones, especially Govou, grabbing him by the neck and refusing to let go for completely trivial reasons. This dog lunges at him as he's backing away (Govou is a bit clumsy), bites him, and won’t let go. Luckily, he doesn’t break the skin, despite how serious it is (it’s a clear kill-bite gesture). However, Govou and Enzo are a pair, and on his own, Govou just tries to break free. But when Govou gets attacked and held by the neck, Enzo goes straight in to the rescue, and then the retaliation is pretty massive. Even if you understand your dogs' reactions, it’s just not worth taking unnecessary risks. So, I wouldn't go out without a muzzle with them.
Normal communication usually helps avoid conflict even during a confrontation, unless it's a full-on bite. I’d recommend carrying a water bottle; I've used one to separate three large dogs fighting, and I can promise you it’s more effective than anything else. What you have to understand is that the dog who behaves aggressively by growling and lunging (without biting but threatening) definitely doesn’t know how to communicate (or communicates badly and without respect) for a first meeting, but the dog who bites back immediately doesn't know how to communicate either. So we need to rethink what "aggression" really means. If my dog ever bit someone or another dog badly (and I don't mean just nipping) without having been bitten first, yeah, he’d be in a muzzle without a doubt.
So I’m asking you my question again, célinéo... suppose I’m walking my dog on a lead and muzzled, and a "stray" dog attacks my dog... what am I supposed to do, since my dog won’t be able to defend himself and neither will I, unless I want to get bitten as well!! In practical terms, what’s meant to happen to my dog? "Do I just watch him get bitten and maybe even killed by this stray"?
Do I try to separate them by "hitting the other dog" and risk it turning on me? What should I do????
If you have the solution, then fine, let’s hear it – you never know.
I see some people are still hung up on certain things I said. But the fact remains, it was definitely my dog who was attacked. If it had been another Akita involved, I’d have lost my arms, even though my dog was right at my feet and well and truly got jumped on. Anyway, I’ve got my answers now and I know how to handle it. I just hope that if I ever have to defend myself during an attack, I’m not the one who ends up in handcuffs. (Silly comparison, but not that far-fetched.)
